Literature
2023_3
To me, poetry is salvation, not the spreading of neurosis to others… Umberto Eco said, “I do not write what people want, I write what I would like people to want”… Today, contemporaneity has made the role of literature easier. But to understand a literary work, real readers probably need the same amount of work as real authors. At any time, contemporaneity comes with a lot of confusion. Many people are excited about literature and art, but these people were brought there by trends. I think that it is not an epoch or trend that creates poets; but on the contrary poets create epochs.
Tarkovski wrote, “If we had a feeling of harmony with our contemporary time, then we wouldn’t be necessary anymore”… It is precisely our will to restore this harmony that makes us write. The harmony was lost in our world; Adam remained without divine harmony, and he is trying to catch some divine notes in a melody or word, or even on a theater stage, in order to share them with himself and with someone else, another human.
As in Coppola’s ‘Godfather’, on this side, there is a bright, sunny wedding, and on the other, Don Corleone’s dark room. Coppola has Caravaggio’s aesthetics – he separates the bright from the dark. Coppola has separated Don Corleone’s worldview with Caravaggio’s aesthetics… This film is not solely about the mafia; it has many other deep messages. Let us remember Lord Acton’s words: “Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.”
When you see a good film or show and you want to share this emotion with your friends, it’s a similar situation as in poetry – when there is something to say, you want to say it to your close ones to create sympathy and compassion. I think that the main source of sustenance for art is compassion, and its essence is the wish to retrieve a lost harmony.
What is a poet’s mission in contemporary Georgia? Did anything change recently?
Ilia and Akaki have defined the mission of a 19th century poet… In the 19th century, this mission was defined as guiding the nation… It was at that period that the ideas for a university, bank, theater, journal, magazine, library, and many others were born, and many others were brought to fruition too. But in the beginning of the 20th century, Galaktion Tabidze arrived, and a new era began in Georgianliterature. Galaktion comes down from the pedestal of the nation’s guide, and he addresses the reader directly – not the nation. In Georgia, the literary calendar doesn’t follow the ordinary one. Rustaveli’s one-man reign continues until Guramishvili. The latter’s ‘Davitiani’ didn’t usurp ‘The Knight in the Panther’s Skin’s’ throne, but it brought a new stream, a new kind of voice. Then comes the 19th century society, and Galaktioni starts the 20th century. The fog of confusion will probably dissipate soon, and we will arrive in the 21st century…
In terms of literature, I understand, but when you addressed the “calendar” 21st century Georgian society to tell them that we should “save the 19th century”, what did you mean exactly?
I think that the 19th century is based on Erekle’s decision. Erekle brought the 19th century. Erekle’s decision was to take a step towards Europe and not towards the Russian ‘FSB’ of the time. Erekle had addressed European countries several times, but Europe didn’t have time for us back then. Our reality was this one: the Ottoman Empire, the Persian Empire, and Russia, which had a “window with a view on Europe” and 12 imperial universities, including the Science Academy and the University of Moscow, which, the latter, was founded by Lomonosov in a classical European manner. In this geopolitical situation, Erekle chose to march towards Europe to physically save the nation. And this was followed by the great 19th century – a decisive one for our country… Which, by convention, starts with Dodashvili and is crowned by Ilia Chavchavadze. The 19th century determined not only our future, but also – would you believe it? – our past… And that’s why it has to be saved again at all times, and protected and taken into the future…
And today, in which reality
This is today’s tendency: they want to leave people without any experience of distinguishing wrong from right. When you don’t make use of humanity’s experience and start distinguishing the right from the wrong by yourself, when nobody represents anything for you after Socrates, and you decide yourself what is good and what is bad
– this only revives unhealthy passions… If you don’t know if you are a man or a woman, a child or an old person, alive or dead – it means you can be accepted by the new trend of our time.
We used to know, in any religion, that humans strive for fulfillment. And everybody sees fulfillment in their own way: for some, it is Buddha, for others, it’s Allah, and for others still, the Christ. Now, the tables have turned: if I cannot reach fulfillment, it’s not my fault anymore (before, they used to look for the reasons for this challenge in themselves); now it is fulfillment itself that has to come to me. The logic was turned upside-down: truth was moved from fulfillment to humans themselves.
Humans sometimes attempt to appear ultramodern and to go faster than time. If time goes faster than God – then that time is dangerous!
What brought about this crisis of values?
That’s a difficult question… I think it’s people’s presumptuousness, which has brought the human to the denial of the Creator!..
What is Dato Magradze’s spiritual connection with Georgian writers?
Whoever is connected to the eternal, divine world – I want all of them to become my parents, and me to become their child. I am very thankful to anybody who has made me feel that I am from a great country – from Baratashvili to Pirosmani…
As Marcel Proust put it, “life is an effort in time”, and I want to mention Guram Rcheulishvili’s ‘Alaverdoba’ about this too. Wasn’t Alaverdi first seen by its architect? When the vision of such a temple in the Alazani Valley sparked in his mind, this is when Alaverdi became alive, before appearing in reality… And this speaks of our country’s culture… But centuries have passed, and this feeling has disappeared. What is Rcheulishvili protesting against?! – He is missing this spark, and the writer sacrifices himself – in order to save this second, this spark… This is precisely what Marcel Proust means in “effort in time”… If you translate Baratashvili’s ‘Merani’ in prose, it is Guram Rcheulishvili’s ‘Alaverdoba’.
Is Don Quixote also about saving this kind of spark? Very soon, there will be a presentation of your book at the Cervantes Institute in Spain; could you tell us more about that too?
Being invited by the Cervantes Institute is a great honor for me, firstly because it is the Cervantes Institute, and secondly, because with regards to the work they do, it is perhaps the largest institute of literature in the world in terms of scale. As Dostoievski said, “When God asks you “I have created you, and what did you create?”, you have to answer that we have written Don Quixote.”
Cervantes wanted to save the world, and he wrote Don Quixote. He knew better than anyone else that Don Quixote couldn’t die, because a great idea would die with him. That is why Don Quixote comes back to his senses before dying and dies as Alonso Quijano, so he can be reborn as Don Quixote.
As for the presentation of my book, it will take place on the 30 of October in Madrid, at the Cervantes Institute. I will present the Spanish version of my poem ‘Abundant Soil’ to Spanish readers. This evening will be broadcast live on the whole network of the Cervantes Institute, because the latter has subsidiaries in London, Istanbul, and every large city of the world. After that presentation, I am going to a book fair in Turkey, where I have to present a Turkish book published by four different publishing houses.
This reminds me of a similar subject. I would also like to express my utter gratitude towards the Rustaveli Georgian Literature Institute, the current administration of which, and particularly Irma Ratiani, have organized a very important international writers’ forum in Tbilisi, with up to 200 delegates, including from the Pensylvannia Institute,
the Delhi University, the Cambridge University and world-renowned contemporary writers and literary critics.
We talked about Spain – what does it mean to strive for Europe…
A formula of constant renewal exists in Europe. Today, an official representative of the European bureaucracy might think that the pyramids were built in the jungle, that Rabindranath Tagore was an inhabitant of the jungle, and similarly about Chinese culture.
By the way, when Gustav Mahler’s child died and he was sacked from the New York Metropolitan Opera, he entered a severe depression. His brother inadvertently left a book of Chinese poetry athis place. And this book took him out of his depression. Perhaps thisfact doesn’t have any importance for Mr. Borrell, but to me, this is an utterly interesting episode in the life of a great European composer.
Here, they look at Europe either as a place where there is chaos among genders, or a Mecca or Medina, where you have to close your eyes to everything and stand on one foot. But standing on one foot is not dignified, and does it matter if you do it before the French or the Russians?!
I can’t tell you much about striving for contemporary Europe, but today, I will only say one thing about some people who tell us to “go home towards Europe”, not to make things worse: practice what you preach – otherwise, you could lose credibility…
I will tell you what I like in Europe – whatever peaks they reached in terms of thought, education, and art, they “translated” them into everyday life, and one can feel it everywhere: at the court of law, thehairdresser, in the streets, in a cafe… This culture perspires in their way of life and civil understanding.
I think that in order to open spiritual borders, it is important to cohabit with Europe. But it is not only us who need Europe, they need us too. Europe can be put in safes, closed books, and museums, but they need new blood too to develop – a new world, a new life. To us, it is important that the cultural Europe survives in the geographical one.
And what is culture?
Culture is a way of life, a spiritual condition, in which something is embarrassing, something is shameful, where values exist.
The 20th century also started with a lack of culture – the bullet shot at Ilia was a lack of culture, not the bullet shot at a master by a resentful peasant. At the time, the more ignorant and cultureless you were, the more you would go up in society. Ilia’s murder attests to this too.
Mamardashvili said that the truth is more important than the homeland when the homeland, and the homeland alone, was becoming the truth. The truth always means the homeland, but does the homeland always mean the truth?...
I have the impression that the roads taken by Barabbas and the Christ have not been clearly understood in our society. Barabbas’ road is the road to getting free from Rome. As for Christ’s road, it is that of getting free from sin. Naturally, if you have some national pride, you will fight for your country’s independence, but leave some place for God in your heart, because God tells you much more than freedom… Ilia Chavchavadze is the best example of the coexistence of national independence and the praise of God. Personally, I believe in Rafiel Eristavi’s formula: “Just as God, there is only one homeland in this world…”
At the crossroads between Europe and Asia, a synthesis of oriental and western cultures…
When Kipling writes that “the West is the West, the East is the East, and they will never be able to meet”, in contrast to that, the East met the West in Tbilisi, and in a very interesting way too… “The Knight in the Panther’s Skin” itself is a blend of the two cultures, and is an open space where the western antique culture seems as charming and close as the eastern. To Rustaveli, Platon and Ferdowsi are both his. When Baratashvili writes that “looked at France”, at the same time, he writes to Maiko Orbeliani about bayat and mugham music performers in Ganja – “you have stopped satirizing easily, because a new star was born…”. I am reminded of Vakhtang Kotetishvili’s wonderful letter: when a man in a tailcoat comes and takes rugs from the wall. “Tomorrow… You have to build tomorrow today. Tomorrow – that’s God’s will. Your job is today…”
Why is it difficult to live with each other?
Georgia was always notable in terms of cultural cohabitation. The example of Aghmashenebeli alone is enough: he forbade to kill pigs where Muslims were living; he was going to both the synagogue and the mosque – he was teaching us cohabitation through examples. Tbilisi really was the city in which everybody was a local, but today, it seems that this has become an old tradition, and any tendency usually takes a “more Catholic than the Pope” character and is exaggerated. This is how the liberal-conservative opposition looks too: one side is looking for happiness in their own “superiority”, while the other side is looking for Christ’s enemies instead of looking for Christ… And whoever is looking for someone for their whole life finds them…
Some are wearing the uniform of a conservative person, and others are wearing the uniform of a liberal. But the question remains: maybe freedom doesn’t wear a uniform?
Rigorous conservatism lacks the wish to discover something new and looks for happiness in the quality of being closed, even though looking for something new is actually more of a tradition than idolizing a still frame. Naturally, old doesn’t mean too old, and the old is the foundation for the avant-garde, but without an avant-garde, the rearguard stands still, and contemporaneity loses contact with it. The rearguard and avant-garde are in harmony and couldn’t become a source of civil conflict in a cultured society.
Kazbegi Street #14 – is it something you miss or a place of the past?
Of course, I miss it. It is a longing for my childhood and a feeling of eternity. When such moments happen, you feel that the present, past and future are only conditional, and… Eternity is born in a feeling that doesn’t belong in any division of time…
When Baratashvili wrote ‘Pegasus’, it became a thing of the three divisions of time right away. When I read ‘Pegasus’, I have the feeling that it was written by the child of a great country. There are many works that don’t give this feeling, that aren’t written by the child of a great country. Baratashvili’s Georgia is a great country, while some other person’s Georgia can be a not-so-great one, because provincialism antagonizes culture. In the end, culture is the winner. Because culture is eternal too – it exists in the three divisions of time. As for provincialism, it is only there in the present. By provincialism, I mean a lack of culture. A lack of culture that one wouldn’t want as their fate…
***
Today, during a crisis of values, the mission of a poet is much bigger than it was in the 19th century. As was said about Marcus Aurelius: “An emperor and a citizen”… The creation of citizens took centuries… And today, it is the human in the citizen that needs to be saved. The mission of poetry is precisely that: to save the human in the citizen. In a second, we need to save eternity, in a drop of water – the ocean, in citizens – the humans that are inside of them.
“The shackles of time – even if I throw my wristwatch,
the epoch won’t change
no, I will remain in Babylon
as a firefighter,
I’ll save at least one child
from the burning fire of godlessness,
so that he might dream a sweet dream
of us, citizens of Babylon
Flee Babylon!”
